MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
For a perspective on the Pentagon's restrictive new press policy, we've called somebody who's been on both sides of the microphone, Pete Williams. He began his career as a journalist, then became a congressional press secretary and, later, assistant secretary of defense for public affairs under former President George H. W. Bush. He then returned to journalism as an award-winning correspondent for NBC News, and he's with us now. Pete Williams, good morning. Thanks for joining us.
PETE WILLIAMS: Good morning to you. My pleasure.
MARTIN: So let me just fact-check some things. Hegseth tweeted that members of the press will no longer be allowed to, quote, "roam free." Has that ever been true?
WILLIAMS: No, it's not. And, you know, I was always proud of the fact that uniquely, or nearly uniquely, among all defense establishments around the world, the Pentagon always had reporters inside the building where all the Pentagon officials came to work. I thought that was a matter of pride.
MARTIN: More seriously, he tweeted that media will no longer be allowed to, quote, "solicit criminal acts." That's a very serious allegation. I mean, given that media people and politicians often disagree about what kind of information should be reported on, is there any merit to the claim that journalists are, quote, "soliciting criminal acts"?
WILLIAMS: Well, that would be true if, in theory, you were asking someone to reveal classified information. If you are in cahoots with them, that's potentially an illegal act. But just asking them what's going on and what do you think of what the leadership is doing is hardly illegal. The policy says that you are encouraging employees to break the law because that kind of thing falls out the scope - outside the scope of news-gathering activities. That is what news-gathering activities are. I think it simply means the Pentagon leadership wants to try to control what gets reported, and it also means that military personnel need approval before they can share information with reporters, which makes you wonder whether the current leadership really trust people in uniform.
MARTIN: So, you know, President Trump defended this yesterday. Speaking for the defense secretary, he said, I think he finds the press to be very disruptive in terms of world peace and maybe security for our nation. Did you find that to be true in your time as a Pentagon spokesperson?
WILLIAMS: No, of course not. And, you know, there are times when the leadership of any government agency may find what reporters do a little annoying, but, you know, that's what comes with a democracy. And if the policy is really intended, I think, to stop critical stories about the secretary of defense and his leadership team - and if that's the goal, it's not going to work because reporters can still learn what they need to know without setting foot in the building.
MARTIN: I was going to ask you about that. Can they do their jobs without being in the building?
WILLIAMS: Well, sure. I mean, they can - it's not as easy. They probably won't be as good. But, you know, they still - people still have phones. They can still meet with them after hours. So it's not going to - if their theory is that it'll stop critical stories about Hegseth and the leadership, it's not going to work. But I would make one other point. I think, number one, of course, it's not in the interest of journalists, but it's not in the interest of the Pentagon either because when I was the spokesman there, I found it essential to have journalists close at hand when I needed to reach them to urge corrections or suggest approaches in reporting or provide guidance to avoid mistakes. It's - you know, it's good to have them around.
MARTIN: About to the public? I mean, the public at large. I think I hear what you're saying. You're saying from the standpoint of trying to explain the functioning of the work of the building to the public at large, it's helpful to have proximity to people. It's helpful to know them. It's helpful to understand their deadlines and their work environment and so forth. But what about the public at large? I mean, obviously, we live in a time when, you know, a smaller percentage of the population has actually had active-duty military experience because we have an all-volunteer force for several generations now. What do you think the public might lose as a consequence of this?
WILLIAMS: Well, that's the key point because more and more Americans have no contact with the military. And so the only thing they know about what's going on at the Pentagon is what they read in the news media. And it's just not enough for the secretary to put out social media tweets. You know, we're becoming more and more distant with our military, and that's not a good thing. So anything like this that puts further distance between the reporters and the military is counterproductive. It's just a bad idea, and it's not going to do the Defense Department any good.
MARTIN: We only have about 30 seconds left, but do you - you know, as we mentioned, numerous media outlets, including this one and Fox News, have rejected this policy. Do you see any way this resolves?
WILLIAMS: Well, one way might be in court. There's already talk about lawsuits to challenge this. I don't know how successful that will be. For now, the Pentagon seems pretty hard over on this. I hope - my hope is that they realize that this is just a bad idea and that they'll back away from it after a little time passes.
MARTIN: That's Pete Williams, former assistant secretary of defense for public affairs. He served in the administration of President George H. W. Bush. Pete Williams, thank you so much.
WILLIAMS: My pleasure.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC) Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
NPR transcripts are created on a rush deadline by an NPR contractor. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of NPR’s programming is the audio record.
