TONYA MOSLEY, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. And today, my guest is Walton Goggins. He has been on a run like no other - "The White Lotus," "The Righteous Gemstones," "Fallout," and his newest film, "The Uninvited." It's the latest surge in a 30-year career built on playing some of the most magnetic and morally complex characters in film and television, from the sharp-witted outlaw Boyd Crowder in "Justified" to the swaggering, scheming Baby Billy Freeman in "The Righteous Gemstones" to a series of layered portrayals of Southern men in films, including Quentin Tarantino's "Django Unchained" and "The Hateful Eight." Goggins has talked about how he tries to bring authenticity and nuance to his roles portraying Southern men, resisting the pressure to turn them into caricatures.
Lately, Goggins has been reflecting on the arc of his career and how his childhood has informed his approach to his craft. And when we sat down for our interview, he said let's get into the thick of it, the real of it - life in between the roles. So that's exactly what we did. We started talking about hosting "Saturday Night Live," which he did a few weeks ago. It was the day before Mother's Day, and he describes it as a high point in his career, in part because he shared the moment with his mother.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE")
WALTON GOGGINS: I was raised in Atlanta, Georgia, by my mother, with the help of her three sisters and my grandmother. And my mama is the most important person in my life.
(CHEERING)
GOGGINS: Growing up, whenever my mama - she couldn't afford a babysitter, she would take me with her to honky-tonks. My mother taught me how to clog, taught me how to two-step. And luckily enough for me, my mama is here tonight.
(APPLAUSE)
GOGGINS: We've come a really long way, haven't we, Mom?
JANET LONG: Absolutely.
GOGGINS: And since it's Mother's Day tomorrow, Mama, would you dance with me?
(CHEERING)
GOGGINS: Yeah? Come here.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
GOGGINS: Yeah, right here. One, two.
(CHEERING)
GOGGINS: Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You know what? Yeah, hold on. Let's kick this up a notch. Fellas, if you don't mind.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
MOSLEY: Walton Goggins, welcome to FRESH AIR.
GOGGINS: So, so happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation.
MOSLEY: Walton, that was such a beautiful moment, and she came up onstage, and then you all started dancing. But, you know, the thing that really got me about that is when you were raised by a single mom, there is nobody like you and your mother knowing what it took for you to be up on that stage.
GOGGINS: It's very true. And my mom's life story is so interesting and the journey that it took her, the life that she led up until having a child, and then the life that subsequently we had together to be kind of on that stage in that moment after not seeing my mom for a year.
MOSLEY: Really?
GOGGINS: You know, I hadn't...
MOSLEY: Why? Because you were busy or...
GOGGINS: I've just been on the road for a year and a half, and it just so happened that she came to our home and stepped in when I was out of town to help my wife. And she's obviously really close to her grandson, our son.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: But I just missed her, and I kept missing her by, like, a day or something. So I saw her in her dressing room at, you know, 30 Rock for the first time. I mean, that was the reunion I had, and five minutes later, we're doing the first run-through of the monologue and the dancing. And all of the emotions, all the feels were happening, like, in real time in front of other people. And it was really remarkable. And - you know, and obviously, there's tears kind of in her eyes. My mom has no stage fright about...
MOSLEY: Well, obviously.
GOGGINS: Yeah.
MOSLEY: 'Cause she jumped right into it.
GOGGINS: Right in. Like, give me a crowd. If I'm dancing for one person or I'm dancing for a million, it doesn't matter to my mom. And she's had such an amazing spiritual journey that she knows exactly who she is. And that's rubbed off on me.
MOSLEY: And you've talked about how growing up, it was you and her, and you all had each other, and you would go - she would take you when she didn't have a babysitter to the honky-tonks.
GOGGINS: I mean, I have a single mother, and she had some amazing boyfriends that were extremely influential in my life. But she also had three sisters, my aunts, and my grandmother. And then I had my grandfather, my father's father, and my grandmother kind of on that side, too. But it was - I wasn't raised, honestly, Tonya, by anybody. And if my mom was sitting here, she would say the same thing. I've always kind of had the moniker that Walton raised himself, and what I mean by that is it wasn't neglect. It was the opposite. It was - there were always people around. It was like a village. Like, I was raised by a village of people.
MOSLEY: This makes sense 'cause you said something a while ago, that, like, you never slept more than seven days in the same bed until you were, like, around 15 years old.
GOGGINS: Ever.
MOSLEY: And so now this is kind of making sense. Is that because you were in a village? You were just going from house to house or how - why was that?
GOGGINS: Yeah. I mean, you know, I mean, my mother wasn't, you know, young-young when she had me. I mean, she had me at - I think she was 23 or something like that. And - but, you know, my parents got divorced when I was 3, and, you know, we lived in Decatur, Georgia, you know, downtown, a little duplex. And then - and eventually, we, you know, got this little house out in Lithia Springs, Georgia. And, you know, it was everything for my mom to buy a house. And - but with that, my mom just had a lot of great friends.
MOSLEY: Screens weren't a big part of your life, meaning, like, you weren't someone who was really into movies or shows growing up. But you always sit on the porch. Was this at your mom's house on the front porch - and just talk to people?
GOGGINS: Yeah, you know? Yeah, it was - no, we didn't go to see a lot of movies. I mean, we went to some, you know, seminal movies, but it wasn't certainly a big part of our life. I mean, we had a television, you know? I mean, "Sanford And Son" and, you know, "The Jeffersons" and TBS...
MOSLEY: Those were the ones you were watching?
GOGGINS: ...And the Braves.
MOSLEY: Yeah, yeah.
GOGGINS: You know?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: Yeah, absolutely. I still watch them, you know? But yeah, so we - I didn't have a lot of screens kind of growing up. That really wasn't a big part of our life. My aunt Joan (ph) and her husband, my uncle Mark (ph) - they were both actors in the theater, and a regional kind of Equity theater, usually, like, all over kind of the South. But they traveled a bit up North, and I grew up watching them onstage. But this entire group of people that I'm talking to you about, all of them, like, you could just hand the microphone to any one of these people, and they could just command the room for hours. And no one interrupted their story because they just wanted to hear it. And it was just a lot of laughter and a lot of weed.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: You know? And they were all deeply empathic people, and they wore their emotions on their sleeve. And they always cared about other people.
MOSLEY: It seems like it's something that is of great value to you. Like, one of the details that I always find funny - I've heard you say the story a couple of times - that, like, you were runner-up for the friendliest person in the mock election in high school. And the thing about that that really got me was that you hold on to that detail that you were runner-up - (laughter) you know? - but also, that, like, that is a quality of yours that you feel is important.
GOGGINS: I do feel that being kind is important. I mean, it's not like I - excuse my language. It's not like I can't be an a**hole. I can, for sure. But I...
MOSLEY: But it's something that you value.
GOGGINS: It is something that I value, yeah, deeply. And this is the women in my family. This is my mother. We never had a washer and dryer when I was young. And so we'd go to the laundromat, like a lot of people do. And there was video game there, you know, arcade game, Centipede, or whatever, and she would give me the change to play it. But spending those years in a laundromat, just being around people. My mother's dream in life was to be able to afford - to be able to take a thousand dollars out of the bank and go around to all these other people folding their laundry and when they weren't, like, looking, slip in a $20 bill, you know? Like, so that when they got home, it's like, wow, oh, my God. Like, in their sweatpants or whatever.
MOSLEY: That was a dream she would share with you. Yeah.
GOGGINS: That was - yeah, absolutely. It's like, what would you do with a million dollars? This is what I would do with a thousand dollars, you know? And that led me to have this experience in Cambodia.
MOSLEY: What did you do?
GOGGINS: OK, ready for this? I was traveling in Southeast Asia. I was in Cambodia, and then I was in northern Vietnam. I came back to Cambodia, and I wanted to go work for an organization 'cause I met this really cool backpacker, and she said, I just got back, and this organization was cool. I called them, and I said, I'd really like to come. I'd like to give some money, or I'd like to do something.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: Like a lot of people do. The guy, you know, never got back to me. But so then I had this driver. His name was Tang (ph), and he had this tuk tuk - right? - that he drove me around. I knew enough about the country to know that there are families that still comb the trash pile...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: ...Looking for jewelry and things of value...
MOSLEY: ...That they...
GOGGINS: Yeah, that they can make money off of. Correct. So stopped at the ATM. I got out $2,000 in small bills. And we spent, I want to say, 12 hours just walking that trash pile, on top of it, and then the tents and everything that are off to the side. And I just gave it out $20 at a time, just like my mama. And it was one of the greatest experiences of my life.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is actor Walton Goggins. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOSEPH STEPHENS' "EPIC THEME")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. Let's get back to my conversation with actor Walton Goggins. He's currently starring in a new film written and directed by his wife, Nadia Conners. It's called "The Uninvited."
You know, to grow up poor, you always have dreams that, like, one day, I'll be able to do this, or what would you do with this, or what would you give up in life to have a million dollars? You know, sometimes it's always those, those fantasies and jokes. You started working at 12 years old.
GOGGINS: Yeah, at 12.
MOSLEY: Yeah. And you have had some really interesting jobs before you became an actor. You worked a construction site. You were...
GOGGINS: Yeah, mixing cement. Yeah.
MOSLEY: Mixing cement.
GOGGINS: Yeah. For rock masons, yeah.
MOSLEY: Skating rink (laughter).
GOGGINS: Skating rink. It was - I think it's all - it's been downhill from there. Yeah, as a DJ at a skating rink. Yeah, yeah, going into my summer before my ninth-grade year. I sold bait. I worked with a roofing crew.
MOSLEY: And going to school, too?
GOGGINS: I worked painting fences.
MOSLEY: Were you going to school at the same time?
GOGGINS: Well, it was summer, right?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: But then we had a program once we got into high school where, you know, you could start working, I think, in the 11th grade or something like that, or however many hours that you could work for a week. It was very different back then. And, yeah, I got in that program, and I just kept working. And I worked in retail, you know, at the mall, like a lot of people do, but with my best friend, this guy, Edwin (ph), and a crew of guys that I grew up with. We sold newspapers, the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, door to door. And we would only work, like, hours a day, but we had that gift of gab, you know, and, you know, just to make people have a good time. And we sold so many subscriptions to Atlanta Journal-Constitution. It was so much fun.
MOSLEY: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you've talked, though, about, like, you wanted to have money in your pocket, but you also kind of felt a little bit of insecurity, but maybe even shame about being poor.
GOGGINS: Oh, God. Absolutely. And I don't carry it with me so much anymore, but, you know, I think that's one of the most profound kind of insecurities that I had with me for a long time. Two things, really. But one, being this outsider, you know, not having a lot as a kid, and there was one moment where I was dating this girl. Man, I just liked her so much. I had the biggest crush on this person. And I remember her mom was coming to pick me up, and I think I lied to my mom. She knew where I was going to - like, I was going to go. I said, I think - Mom, I think she's going to be here pretty soon. I didn't give her my address. I gave her my neighbor's address.
And I said, OK, Mom, I think they're coming. I love you. Bye-bye. And I, you know, ran out and hid in the ditch. And I saw these lights kind of coming, and I knew it was them. And so I just jumped out, like, as if I was walking down the driveway, and they pulled in, and then the porch light kind of came on behind me, and I just jumped in the car. I was like, OK, let's go. Let's go. Well, can't we meet, you know, your mom? No, no, no. She's - let's just get out of here. And the other thing was not having a - not finishing college and not having those four years of deep, soulful learning.
MOSLEY: You spent a year in college.
GOGGINS: I spent a year.
MOSLEY: And I wondered about this because you carried, like, an insecurity about that that you didn't have maybe that formative education with all the classics and things like that.
GOGGINS: Yeah. Just being in conversations when I got out to Los Angeles. There was one ride in particular, kind of coming back from San Diego to LA, where I was with this group of people that all went to these, you know, fancy schools. And they were talking about literature and referencing all of these different authors and the characters in these books. And I just had no idea what they were talking about - nothing. And I just kept, like, making these mental notes. You know, this is before cellphone, I couldn't put a note down. And I was like, OK, yeah, yeah.
MOSLEY: You're like, Ernest Hemingway.
GOGGINS: Somerset Maugham.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: Like, all of these different things - John Steinbeck. And then I just kind of set out to do that, you know, on my own. But I would've given anything to have had that time. I wouldn't have traded my life because I wouldn't want anything to be altered in my life because I'm so grateful for the life that I have. Not just in this moment - I've always been grateful for my life. But if I could go back and not alter my life, I would take four years meeting, you know, kids in class and talking politics in a second.
MOSLEY: Why did you leave after a year to go from college?
GOGGINS: Because I got this offer from American Express to go into debt.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
MOSLEY: Wait, wait, wait. Wait, you got to tell us. So you got in the mail...
GOGGINS: I showed up to college like everybody else, and I began getting mail. And one of the first pack of advertising was this offer from American Express that said if you get this card, you will get two flight vouchers for $99 east of the Mississippi or $199 west of the Mississippi. And I looked at them, and I thought, all I've got to do is get this card, and I can go to Los Angeles for $199? Because the tickets were so expensive back then, I thought...
MOSLEY: And at that time, you had already had the acting bug.
GOGGINS: And I already started working, yeah.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: And had done, like, "In The Heat Of The Night" and then this big movie of the week called "Murder In Mississippi" about the three slain civil rights workers. Yeah.
MOSLEY: Had it already crystallized in your mind, then, by that time that acting was the career you wanted to go into?
GOGGINS: I mean, certainly that was going to be a part of my experience was trying it, you know, I mean, endeavoring to do it, endeavoring to learn what it is that you're asking yourself to do. Absolutely. I would be lying if I said otherwise. But it was really also to have an experience. Like, I just wanted to get out. I just wanted to see the world. I wanted a passport that was filled with stamps from all over the world. And that's what I wanted. And coming to Los Angeles, being able to at least try to become a storyteller, was going to be a part of my journey. And then if that didn't work out, you know, I don't know what I would've done, but I would have had a passport filled with stamps from other countries. That I do know.
MOSLEY: How much money did you come to LA with in your pocket?
GOGGINS: 300 bucks.
MOSLEY: There's an element when you grow up in poverty that a little bit of it always stays with you.
GOGGINS: Always.
MOSLEY: What are the ways that you might know that others may not even perceive?
GOGGINS: I still save my per diem. Like, you know, I understand, you know, the value of a dollar. I understand...
MOSLEY: And the per diem is what the studio gives you or what they give you when you're on a movie like for...
GOGGINS: A living allowance, a living allowance.
MOSLEY: Yeah, a living allowance. Yeah.
GOGGINS: Yeah. And I will spend $1,000 on a meal, but only after I've eaten for free for 10 days.
MOSLEY: (Laughter).
GOGGINS: You know what I mean?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: Just the insecurity of, even though I never lost a house, my mom never lost her house or anything like that - but the insecurity of not being able to provide for my family.
MOSLEY: I want to talk about some of your early roles because one of your first roles happened in 1997 with Robert Duvall on "The Apostle." And this film, to remind people, Duvall plays Sonny. He is a Pentecostal preacher, and he's charismatic but deeply flawed. And you played this young man, Sam, who becomes a born-again Christian after you meet Duvall's character. I read that after you all finished filming, Duvall took you to lunch.
GOGGINS: Yeah.
MOSLEY: And he gave you some advice.
GOGGINS: Well, he gave me some advice, you know, and he gave me a compliment that I certainly wasn't expecting. We were at lunch, and he said, you know, I want to tell you something. Hey, hey. And he said, you know, not many people can do what you just did. Not many people are willing to do what you just did, and because you're not thinking about it and you're just coming from your heart. There is no filter on you, and you're turning yourself over to an imaginary set of circumstances. But he said, don't lose that. He said, I don't even think you're fearless. I don't even think fear comes into it. I think maybe you're fearful but, you know, I don't think it's a decision for you to be fearless.
I don't think you came to this job, thinking, I'm going to show people - I'm going to just let it all hang out. It's just in your body. And don't ever, ever, ever lose that. Like, be that open always. What he was saying was you're not jaded. I mean, it's not like you don't have obstacles that you need to overcome and deep insecurities. But what you do have is an open heart, and don't lose that, man. You know what I mean? Always come from that, even if you get it wrong. But don't lose that love and passion for this work or that you, you know, appear to have in life.
MOSLEY: Our guest today is actor Walton Goggins. We'll be right back after a short break. I'm Tonya Mosley, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF CRISTOBAL TAPIA DE VEER'S "ENLIGHTENMENT (MAIN TITLE THEME) - FROM 'THE WHITE LOTUS: SEASON 3'")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley, and today I am talking to actor Walton Goggins, whose film and TV career has spanned more than three decades. He first gained widespread attention for his Emmy-nominated role as Detective Shane Vendrell on the critically acclaimed series "The Shield" before going on to play the Southern antihero, Boyd Crowder, in "Justified." His other credits include the Quentin Tarantino film "The Hateful Eight," as well as "Django Unchained," HBO's "The White Lotus," and "The Righteous Gemstones" and "Fallout" on Amazon Prime Video. He stars in a new film called "The Uninvited," a drama written and directed by his wife, Nadia Conners. The film centers on a couple, played by Goggins and Elizabeth Reaser, who are hosting a lavish Hollywood dinner party and are confronted by an unexpected guest at their home, setting off a night of reckoning, memory and emotional unraveling.
One of the things about you as an actor that I see over and over again is that, you know, you're memorable, and every single thing that you're in, people remember you. And it's also true that you haven't gotten quite a bit of roles because you're so memorable, because can they have this guy who's - like, everyone can see and know be, like, the supporting actor? Was that ever frustrating for you at any point in your career?
GOGGINS: Well, I just never - you know, I've been around for such a long time. Based on my looks or my personality, you know, I'm not, like, a conventional leading man, or I haven't been, you know, my whole life. And the people that knew what to do with me knew what to do with me early on. But I just didn't have those opportunities in film. You know, a couple of, like, kind of leading roles that - movies that no one saw, and I'm still so proud of them. And I just - I made the most out of every single opportunity that I was given and - because the only thing that you can control in this business is the work that you put into it - right? - expecting nothing in return. And I have had that. I just didn't have those opportunities.
And it was only once television kind of opened up for me that I began to carve out a space for me, you know, with these opportunities that went, you know, in many different ways. But for the most part, if you get the opportunity to go to work, you go to work. Whenever you've been away from it a little long because your ego got involved and you think, ah, well, that's beneath me - is it? Really? Go to work.
MOSLEY: Have you had those moments?
GOGGINS: Oh, man, you know, after "The Shield." You know, I mean, it was prestige television at the dawning of this last iteration of that. It was just as bad (ph)...
MOSLEY: This was, like, your really...
GOGGINS: ...In "The Shield."
MOSLEY: ...Big regular series.
GOGGINS: Yeah, yeah, 2001. Yeah, it would've been - we did the pilot before 9/11. And then they picked it up, and we went to work, whatever, six or seven months later. But after that experience - you know, seven years having that experience, after that, you know, I couldn't get a job for anything. You know, nothing...
MOSLEY: Really?
GOGGINS: ...Kind of came my way. And I guess because - just like when people saw "The Apostle." We had a premiere at the Toronto Film Festival. And I remember my manager's friend leaning in and whispering my ear, this is going to be a big movie for you. Even though, you know, you have a smaller part, you take it emotionally. Get ready. Nothing happened because people thought I was just from New Orleans, from Louisiana, and I just got this local hire...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: ...Or whatever. And people thought that about me, like, for a really long time. Just...
MOSLEY: Did you get excited about that 'cause, like, I'm just thinking you've been in so many - you know, like, OK, you're in "The Apostle," then "The Shield." Then you go into these prestige movies.
GOGGINS: I didn't think too much about it, to be quite honest with you, Tonya. I just thought, just go back to work. And so after "The Shield," nothing happened. And then a friend of mine was doing this movie and offered me a really, really small part, and my ego was in the way. It was like, man, I just want more. And I was walking with my wife. She looked at me and said, you need to go to work. And I said, yeah, that's exactly what I need to do. I'm going to call him right now, and I did. I took it. And work begets work. And so for me, that's happened two or three times in my - after "The Hateful Eight," I could - phone didn't ring, you know, for a long time. And it was like, man, this is Quentin. That's a pretty good role. I mean, there's pretty good people in this building.
MOSLEY: I mean, like, right. Everybody's thinking this is the moment.
GOGGINS: Yeah.
MOSLEY: OK, I'm in a Quentin Tarantino movie...
GOGGINS: Yeah, and a second one.
MOSLEY: ...A second one. Right.
GOGGINS: Yeah, with Sam and with Kurt and Jen and Tim, like, and I couldn't get a job. And then I got a phone call to do something, and I just thought, yeah, you know what? I can do that. And it was just - it's almost like God just said, OK, well, you're just going to have to keep moving. You know what I mean? You're going to have to keep swimming upstream in all of these different ways and go off on this little tributary or this one here because those are the opportunities that you're getting. So just say yes.
MOSLEY: It's interesting you mentioned your wife. You know, you're going for a walk, and she can see in you, you got to go to work. She can feel that restlessness in you. You all have done a project together, "The Uninvited." And this is your wife's very first movie. I want to tell people a little bit about "The Uninvited." So the story centers on a single evening in the Hollywood Hills. Rose is the main character. She's a former stage actress turned reluctant housewife, and you play her husband, Sammy. He's a Hollywood talent agent. He's, like, a, you know, bombastic, kind of, like, guy. And the two of you throw this small but high-stakes party at this lavish home to impress Sammy's biggest client. It's a hotshot director.
One of the things your wife does in the writing is she illuminates really, like, this idea of how wealth and status really can't shut out the realities of life, that, like, all of the things still happen to this family, despite the fact that they're wealthy and they're in this big Hollywood home. And this woman who comes that's older and is confused, she represents so many things. It all just kind of comes crashing in.
GOGGINS: I think one of the most important takeaways for the movie for me is that "The Uninvited" is actually an invitation to live your life more meaningfully. And that's what all of these characters do. They have money, but as they say in the movie, they're - most of this is borrowed anyway. They're just renting. They're - they bought a house that they'll never be able to pay for. It's just a facade. You know, they're on a treadmill like everyone else. And then this woman shows up at their house and is the great disruptor to, you know, shake all of these people out of walking through life, you know, numbly without kind of experiencing everything that's kind of going on around you. And she's a great catalyst for change for all these people, and it happened to us.
MOSLEY: It's based on, yeah, like, a real story almost.
GOGGINS: Yeah. We were at a party that we were throwing at our house, and a woman showed up in her 80s and rang the buzzer and said, I need to get in my house, please. And yeah, so it's predicated on that, and it's a great story. People have really responded to it. I'm really proud of my wife. But...
MOSLEY: 'Cause it's an independent film, right? You've got Pedro Pascal. There's some big names in this movie.
GOGGINS: Rufus Sewell.
MOSLEY: Yes.
GOGGINS: Lois Smith.
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: Elizabeth Reaser. Yeah, some really, really great people.
MOSLEY: You know, these are life experiences, but I can't help but think about how they're infused in what you do because you're wanting to have these human connections with people and understand people. And one of the things you're just known for - you're taking on comedic acting, you're taking on serious roles, you're inhabiting people that are characters. They seem like singular forces. But there's something that you are pulling from these different experiences that - are they showing up in the work that you do? Because I feel like it is.
GOGGINS: I think so. Thank you very much for saying that, first and foremost, but I do. The art of storytelling, the job of storytelling, the privilege of storytelling, for me, it is a religion. And the way that I was raised, the people that raised me and their empathy for the world around them and for their fellow men and women, is how I approach every job that I do. I love getting close to these people that I get to play, that I've had the opportunity to play, and understanding the world from their point of view. But that's always been with me since I was a kid because that's how I was raised. And so it's an extension...
MOSLEY: It makes you emotional. And I just...
GOGGINS: It is.
MOSLEY: Like, every time you get to this point, you start to get emotional. I'm just wanting to know, what is it?
GOGGINS: Well, OK, well, I think about "The Shield," you know, and I think about the ending of that. And I think about the tragedy of this person who was under the influence of this guy, Vic Mackey, so brilliantly played by Chiklis. And I think about the way that his life ended. And I think about him being on the run. And I think about the conversation that he had once he found love in his life and he was his own man without much time left to live, because, like, he found peace and something to live for. And I go right back there every single time I talk about it.
I look at Boyd Crowder's journey, and it is not so different from my own. It is a dude who is just trying to get out of poverty and reinvent himself, not so that other people can see him in a certain way, so that he can see himself in a different way. And his whole journey is something that is so profoundly intimate to me, just like Rick in "The White Lotus," every single thing - the role in "The Hateful Eight." Chris Mannix is dying on the bed, thinking about what does it take to change the heart and mind of one white dude, you know? What does that mean, really?
And all of these people, they mean something to me. And what's so exciting about my life is that I'm not done. There are more people for me to meet. Whether I get it right or whether I don't get it right is irrelevant to me. I will always strive to understand these people with the level of empathy and curiosity that was instilled in me from my childhood and that I move through life with.
MOSLEY: You mentioned Boyd Crowder, and that's from the show "Justified." It debuted in 2010. It ran for six seasons. Your character, Boyd, he's this charismatic outlaw. And you star alongside Timothy Olyphant, who plays U.S. Marshal Raylan Givens. And both of you are shaped by the same world, but of course, you have different outcomes. Well, the scene that I want to play is from the end of the series. And I want to play it because it kind of goes back to something you're talking about, when you keep going back to home, like, the foundation of who you are. So at the end of the series, when Boyd is in prison and Raylan comes to deliver some news to him face to face, you all say this thing. And your character speaks first. Let's listen.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "JUSTIFIED")
GOGGINS: (As Boyd Crowder) Can I ask you one question before you go?
TIMOTHY OLYPHANT: (As Raylan Givens) As long as you understand if it annoys me, I'm just going to hang up.
GOGGINS: (As Boyd Crowder) Scout's honor. Tramble Penitentiary is a long way from Miami Raylan. Now, you could've called the warden. You could've sent word to my lawyer.
OLYPHANT: (As Raylan Givens) You're asking why I came? Thought it was news that should be delivered in person.
GOGGINS: (As Boyd Crowder) That the only reason? After all these long years, Raylan Givens, that's the only reason?
OLYPHANT: (As Raylan Givens) Well, I suppose if I allow myself to be sentimental, despite all that has occurred, there is one thing I wander back to.
GOGGINS: (As Boyd Crowder) We dug coal together.
OLYPHANT: (As Raylan Givens) That's right.
GOGGINS: (Sighing).
MOSLEY: (Sighing). That's my guest today, Walton Goggins, from the FX series "Justified." It's the statement that echoes through the show, that we dug coal together.
GOGGINS: Yeah.
MOSLEY: The people, we move on. We go in different directions, but there's that tie that always holds us together, you know?
GOGGINS: Always.
MOSLEY: Some of the things you said about yourself when you were young are all the things you shared. But there's also - was there a moment in time when there could've been another path for you, when you got in trouble, when you got into some things or people that you've left behind that you dug coal together with but have taken another path.
GOGGINS: I mean, you know, we dug coal is a metaphor for so many things in our lives, right?
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: But, yeah, there were, you know, people that I grew up with that, yes, that died, you know, or friends that, they just went a different way. I don't think that that was ever, ever going to happen for me. I don't think I had a choice.
MOSLEY: If you're just joining us, I'm talking to actor Walton Goggins. We'll continue our conversation after a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF ENNIO MORRICONE'S "UN MONUMENTO")
MOSLEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Tonya Mosley. And today, I am talking to actor Walton Goggins, who has starred over the decades in many films and TV shows, including the latest season of "The White Lotus," "The Righteous Gemstones," "Justified," "The Hateful Eight" and "Django Unchained." He's now starring in a new film called "The Uninvited," a drama written and directed by his wife, Nadia Conners.
I want to talk a little bit about Baby Billy from "The Righteous Gemstones." I just talked to Danny McBride, the creator. I know you all have now become dear friends. I know Baby Billy is, like, a composite of a lot of different people. You and Danny McBride went into a room together and you kind of created this person. I need to know more about where you got that from, and, like, where - the accent, all of it. It's like somebody I know. It's like my uncle in Mississippi. You know, like, get over here.
GOGGINS: Yeah.
MOSLEY: Like, where did you get that from?
GOGGINS: Well, you know, I really - and I genuinely mean this. I've said this so many times, but I don't believe in playing a character. I don't believe in making choices. I don't sit in a room and go, oh, is Baby Billy around here? Well, is Baby Billy here? Like, where is he? How does he walk? I don't really think about those things. I don't stand in front of a mirror and go, well, wouldn't it be interesting? Like, from a...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: ...Cerebral, kind of analytical point of view, you just put on the costume and put on the clothes and then you're just that person. I just spend so much time in my imagination imagining these people are real.
MOSLEY: But they come from probably pieces along the way.
GOGGINS: They come - absolutely. So, OK, my father, there is a...
MOSLEY: A bit of B. Billy - your dad.
GOGGINS: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, just kind of like a big, flamboyant personality that can just fill up a room. My father's an amazing guy and a really entertaining guy. He was a tough guy for a long time when I was growing up, but he's a very, very, very interesting person. You know, I'm Walton Sanders Goggins Jr., and my half-brother is Walton Sanders Goggins III. You know, my father is probably, by definition, you know, a clinical narcissist, but he's also - he's a good man. My father has a really good heart. And like all of us, he just did the best he could, you know, with his trauma. And I do have a lot of forgiveness in my heart and, God, not even forgiveness, just understanding at this point.
MOSLEY: The father-son relationship was a prominent through line in "The White Lotus." Your character, Rick, went to Thailand in search of the person who he thought was responsible...
GOGGINS: Right.
MOSLEY: ...For his father's death.
GOGGINS: Mm-hmm.
MOSLEY: It's really interesting when you talk about, like, this place that you've come to with your own father and that character arc. But what was it like to be a part of such a series on the other side of it that really takes on these real serious societal issues through these very dysfunctional people?
GOGGINS: Well, you know, I can tell you that my own relationship with my own father, I was very angry at my own father, and it was the...
MOSLEY: Which you had to move through. Right.
GOGGINS: That I had to move through...
MOSLEY: Yeah.
GOGGINS: ...And it wasn't all gone, you know, like a miracle in that moment, but it did open the door, and it did allow me to begin that process, and it did speed it up because I wanted to have that forgiveness. And Rick is, for the first time in his life, two weeks before this show started, he is someone who is in a moment of doing inventory in his whole life; in a sober moment, looks around and says, how did I get here? Why am I here? Why am I living this life? And there in his mind is one person that is responsible for that, that permanently altered the course of his life in a very negative way. And Mike White - with all of these stories, but this one in particular - he brings such a deeply nuanced observation of these experiences in the world, and he's able to tell them with humor but with pathos and with anger, you know, in a way that very few people can.
MOSLEY: Walton Goggins, this has been such a pleasure to talk with you.
GOGGINS: It has been such a pleasure to be in your company. Thank you so much for this conversation, truly.
MOSLEY: Walton Goggins stars in the new film "The Uninvited." It's now available for streaming on demand and in select theaters.
After a short break, TV critic David Bianculli reviews the two-part HBO documentary "Pee-wee As Himself." This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF THE BAMBOOS' "THE BAMBOOS THEME") Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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